Monthly Summary Including My First Ever 20 40 Session

So, monthly summary.

I've quit online poker. It became too many hours for too little money. I've come to realize that I will never be comfortable playing online for the same stakes that I strive to play for regularly live, so I'm putting all my focus on live limit cash games.

To that end, I played my first ever 20 40 holdem session. I forced myself to make the hour drive to GBH casino. I was sitting at a weak/passive 10 20 game and then got called for 20 40. Three of the weak 10 20 players were heading over and I figured what the fuck, its time to make the jump.

I hovered around even for a quite a while until the following hand occurred:

9 handed. UTG calls (I've seen him play 54o in EP), folded to me in MP with KK, I raise. New player in SB calls, solid player in BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop KQ2, 2 hearts. SB bet, BB raise, UTG fold, I call, SB reraises, BB caps (I immediately put him on a set of queens), I stall a bit and call, sb calls (I put him on nut flush draw).

Turn KQ28, 2 hearts/2 spades. SB bet, BB raise, I reraise, SB calls, BB calls.

River, KQ285, 3 spades. Check/check...I bet and both call. SB AA, BB QQ, me KK set. Me happy...me finally win a hand.

So, lets see that's a 22bb pot, and at 20 40 that makes it a $880 pot...likely the largest pot of my life...I can get used to this.

Up to that point I was pretty happy sitting at about even, fairly card dead, and realizing that I could beat this 20 40 game. Sure, there were 4-5 decent players at the table, but there were also players routinely turning over Q7s, K6s, 83s UTG...wow was I happy.

I ended the session up $800 or so after 4-5 hours of play.

I was blessed with June having 5 Wed nights, I won 4/5 sessions. +$1200 or so in my wins and one -$100 loss.

Probably up a few $100 playing 4 8 holdem with a 1/2 kill at The Office. I don't really enjoy that game too much anymore, the stakes are too small for my liking. Whatever profit I made I shot back playing like an idiot at 1 2 holdem for a night -- I just can't take that game seriously, once again...the ultimate boredom...Dave, c'mon, do not play 1 2 NL!

For July...Wednesday nights hi/lo, 10 20 and 20 40 LHE.

Brief Update...

Another hi/lo Wed night, another $300.

I couldn't get much of anything going and was down $200 after 4 hours or so. The table got short and we switched to straight omaha8. I opened the game up quite a bit with straddles, blind raises, etc. There were a few hands that were re-straddled all the way to the small blind 7 handed. Anyhow, by 9am I was up $300. I love the Wed night game.

Haven't played at all online since my terrible run to even, just not in the mood.

So, +$1135 live and even online for the month...have to work this coming Wed, but hoping to get in some holdem sessions.

Missed the monthly 10 20 at The Office, heard it was a great game.

Dealing with Losses...The Next Step in My Development

I don't deal well with losing. I have great difficulty taking a losing session in stride and not being frustrated by it. Rather that type in more detail about this, I'll just paste a recent thread of mine from Canada's Poker Forum, www.pokerforum.ca

So, I took a shot at some $100 sngs with my online winnings for the month, suffered some horrible beats and lost it all back in a day. I think I monied once all day in the 6max sngs. I really felt like crap after the loss. Then I posted a $300 win playing live 4 8 1/2 kill holdem at The Office last night and felt much better. So, back to even online for the month, up $835 live. The monthly 10 20 game is tonight at The Office, but I'm not sure if I'll make it as I want to watch the hockey game and work-out tonight.

Me in orange, below.

So, I'm up $700 or so in a couple days of my usual limit sngs -- I decide to take a shot at some bigger games and suffer bad beat after bad beat. Now, I'm back to even for my online play for the month. I find this the toughest part of my game. When I win, I'm not especially happy as I excpect to be/know that I'm a long-term winning player. I had this same outlook when I was an athlete -- wins, even championships, weren't that high for me, but losses were always quite low. I know this is due to high expecatations, but I feel that it's tougher to deal with in poker due to that higher luck factor. Any large losing session leaves me feeling like crap, even if it leaves me even for the short-term. The money only seems to mean much to me when I lose, not when I win. Even live, I can have 6 winning sessions and be up 2-3k over that time, but one brutal session of losing $500-$600 upsets me for a day or so, and I usually skip a day or 2 af the clubs when this happens. It is rare that I have a losing month, but these sessions still aren't easy for me to let go. This also impedes me at times from moving up limits. Anyone else have this problem with their game? For me, this is the toughest part of poker. The fact that there is know way that you can win every time no matter your skill. I know in my head that it's all part of the game, I know that luck is what keeps driving the bad players back to the game and keeps the games juicy, but it is something that I still struggle with emotionally. I have a fairly balanced life outside of poker, which helps...but losing sessions do creep slightly into my attitude afterwards. Does anyone else have this issue with their game. Or did you have this issue and overcome it? I would think that most winning players are pretty competitive players with high expectations from their games and that this is a large hurdle for some to overcome, I'd appreciate any comments. Thanks.

i think you're better off than you could be, seeing that after a losing session, you take a day or two off, as opposed to immediately jumping back in to break even.. Nothing anybody can tell you that you don't already know and have said, you just have to remember it at the moment. Think of it as the cost of investing, you know the return will come, you just have to put a little capital in.

I posted a similar thread a few months ago (you may remember it got Harthgosh banned). It seems that you suffered the same feelings that I did, you just hate to lose. It wasn't about the money but the actual loss. Whether or not you played bad or had a bad beat it just sucks to lose. Now what have I done to overcome that feeling? I have just seperated the losing from the game that I enjoy. I look back on the actual time that I had. For the most part, even when I lose, I had a fun time playing. If you continue to get depressed or dwell on losses you are going to begin to hate the game. And it will affect how you play during the game. You may become so fearful of feeling like shit that you'll make poor choices that will magnify the the feeling which you are trying to avoid.

Quote from: Flint Bones on June 11, 2006, 06:23:10 PM I posted a similar thread a few months ago (you may remember it got Harthgosh banned). It seems that you suffered the same feelings that I did, you just hate to lose. It wasn't about the money but the actual loss. Whether or not you played bad or had a bad beat it just sucks to lose. Now what have I done to overcome that feeling? I have just seperated the losing from the game that I enjoy. I look back on the actual time that I had. For the most part, even when I lose, I had a fun time playing. If you continue to get depressed or dwell on losses you are going to begin to hate the game. And it will affect how you play during the game. You may become so fearful of feeling like shit that you'll make poor choices that will magnify the the feeling which you are trying to avoid. Well, it's not as extreme as you make it sound. Certainly not to the extreme of any form of depression. I would liken it to losing a big game when I played junior hockey and thinking about it to some extent for the next 24h or so. It's just the frustration of losing at a game that I can beat. Rationally, I know that every session cannot be a winning one, but I still get affected to some degree emotionally by losing. I'm certainly working on getting this out of my game. My goal is to be playing semi-professionaly in the next couple of years, but I can see this as a serious hurdle to achieving that goal. One that, if I can't overcome will seriously hold me back from this goal. I have a completely seperate poker bankroll from my real life money, but I am still not completely immune to the thought of losing actual money when a bad run hits. I have never come remotely close to decimating my poker bankroll and I see my bankroll steadily growing, but still focus more on the losses than any wins. I think that there exists some dicotomy in easily accepting losses and variance and being a competitive, winning player. To me, this would seem to be one of the hardest parts of playing professionaly. Possibly, playing more frequently and thus being more accustom to the swings would be the answer to the problem...only time will tell I suppose.

The swings when going professionally will be far more drastic and longer. You're right, this is a huge hurdle that you must overcome. Clearly you're not ready to go semi-pro (as you have acknowledged), perhaps consulting an actual pro to understand their mentality would be the best course of action. I'm sure you wouldn't want this to affect you. I am not sure if playing more frquently would be the answer. Playing more frequently may enhance the problem rather than allow you to deal with it better. I am not a physcologist but I would think being able to handle the smaller losses would be prudent before making the choice that would affect you financially. That is of course if your "semi-pro" idea is going to be a primary source of income. Losing and realising that making the next mortgage payment or what-have-you will be hard won't make it easier.

I think you hit the nail on the head by saying winning players are competitive. We hate to lose. Whether its $5 or $5000, its still a loss. And it sucks. Even if I finish 2nd in a tourney and take home a wad of cash, I still think of losing to that one other person. My advice... just be happy you can still afford to play.

just wanted to add a comment to this thread. This is exactly how my addiction started! You would win so much some nights then lose it all back the next. You then have the idea in your head, "ah, was just a bad night, let me rebuild again" ..then after awhile you start sounding like the GM for the toronto maple leafs...."Rebuilding Phase" (I mean no offence when I say that about the leafs, I still bleed blue to this day" ...and sooner then later your in the red trying to catch up your inital losses. Word of advice here is slow down, if your doing well at the smaller stakes....why fix something that isn't broke? ...Just remain at that level and sooner or later you will be a bigger winner, then a bigger loser. (like me) -ALI

Quote from: djalikool on Today at 01:07:20 AM just wanted to add a comment to this thread. This is exactly how my addiction started! You would win so much some nights then lose it all back the next. You then have the idea in your head, "ah, was just a bad night, let me rebuild again" ..then after awhile you start sounding like the GM for the toronto maple leafs...."Rebuilding Phase" (I mean no offence when I say that about the leafs, I still bleed blue to this day" ...and sooner then later your in the red trying to catch up your inital losses. Word of advice here is slow down, if your doing well at the smaller stakes....why fix something that isn't broke? ...Just remain at that level and sooner or later you will be a bigger winner, then a bigger loser. (like me) -ALI Thanks for the guidance. However, my issue is not with being a losing player, just with handing the inevitable losses better within the big picture. I felt a bit crappy yesterday about a large-ish loss, had a winning session live tonight and all is forgotten. If I could just get rid of the 12-24h of bother after a losing session things would be perfect...guess I just have to learn to take losing in stride more readily.

Quote from: GTA Poker on Today at 08:55:58 AM If I could just get rid of the 12-24h of bother after a losing session things would be perfect...guess I just have to learn to take losing in stride more readily. No suggestion, but a quick question/comment. If you did eliminate the "12-24h of bother after a losing session" would you still be as good a player? Isn't the pressure of avoiding that feeling as well as the (sometimes painful) time reflecting on our losses and focusing on our mistakes something that makes better player's? When an athlete has a scoring drought, they don't shrug it off as a return from "excellent" to "above average", they get frustrated with themselves, study more video, and spend more time in practice till they get there game back. Personally, I think it would be more "fun" if I didn't feel bad losing, but I think my overall game would suffer. Losing makes me a better player, and forces me to continually improve.

Quote from: beanie42 on Today at 09:54:06 AM Quote from: GTA Poker on Today at 08:55:58 AM If I could just get rid of the 12-24h of bother after a losing session things would be perfect...guess I just have to learn to take losing in stride more readily. No suggestion, but a quick question/comment. If you did eliminate the "12-24h of bother after a losing session" would you still be as good a player? Isn't the pressure of avoiding that feeling as well as the (sometimes painful) time reflecting on our losses and focusing on our mistakes something that makes better player's? When an athlete has a scoring drought, they don't shrug it off as a return from "excellent" to "above average", they get frustrated with themselves, study more video, and spend more time in practice till they get there game back. Personally, I think it would be more "fun" if I didn't feel bad losing, but I think my overall game would suffer. Losing makes me a better player, and forces me to continually improve. Great reply Trevor, couldn't have said it better myself (I was gonna try, but now that would just be embarrassing). /g2

Quote from: GTA Poker on Today at 08:55:58 AM If I could just get rid of the 12-24h of bother after a losing session things would be perfect...guess I just have to learn to take losing in stride more readily. I'm not entirely sure you can, I think this attribute is ingrained in some people. I'm very much the same in all aspects of my life. I hate to lose, I accept that I will but I still hate it...and I'll 'hang on' to it for a while afterwards. Wether it's a hockey game, ball game, poker game, or whatever I also usually have a period of a day or two after a lose where I'm kinda grumpy about it. I also really don't see it as a problem. I handle it much the same as you...which I think is fine. I think it would be more of an issue if you played while still bummed about a recent lose as this could lead you to stray from your game. I personally would try not to worry about it, take your day or so to get over it then get back at it. I'm sure there are many pros that react to a lose in a similar matter and I think it's completely natural.

I'd be a liar if I said I didn't get affected by losing. Poker gets by heart thumping, and that's one of the reasons I love it....but the adrenaline goes both ways...I get pumped by winning, and I get bummed by losing. And it's never about the money for me - I have a seperate bankroll, track all my wins/losses, and never play above my loss threshold....it's about the challenge, and being better than my opponent. Some losses are easier to shake off than others...luckily I have a poker playing husband, and when I lose he gives me perspective (and I do the same for him). The thing I try to do is learn something from every loss....that way it's an investment in improving my game.

Quote The money only seems to mean much to me when I lose, not when I win. I sort of know what you mean. In general I find I play LESS when I'm winning. I find I probably play more often, but I tend to play more managed, shorter sessions. I don't know why. Maybe I have the compulsive urge of playing on when I'm running bad but at what I know is a good table. When I'm winning, I just tend to find the game gets boring and leave with my winnings (I think I'm "probably" better at recognizing when table conditions have detiorated when I'm running well too). If you find a way of getting rid of the pain of losing, let me know. I'm mired in probably my biggest short-term downswing that I can remember. Probably somewhere around 200-250BB at various limits on various sites. It's been annoying to say the least. And while I'm not happy with my results of late, my overall attitude (shockingly) is that of mild indifference. I don't know if my blatant disregard of money is a good or bad thing. Now of course this is very short term (say last 2 weeks), so if I'm in the same boat 2-3 weeks from now, the grind of a longterm downswing may be enough to start weighing on me. I guess I keep telling myself that variance will eventually turn the other way, and going through the fire of a tough losing streak can only make me stronger in the long-run (unless I go broke). Fortunately, playing massively overrolled makes a bad downturn like this bearable at least.

Thanks for the great responses. I guess that in some sense I was venting, but this thread has really helped me. It is very rare that I have more than 1-2 consecutive losing sessions as I'm primarily a cash-game player. As I stated previously, I do have the ambition of being able to play poker part-time-professionally at some point in my life -- whether that will ever come to fruition remains to be seen. I have no illusions about the downsides of being an any-level pro player. Obviously doing something part-time for a living in which you cannot always succeed can be frustrating at times. I feel that minimizing the sting of losses is one of the most important aspects of my game that I need to work on before ever even considering any transition to being a part-time pro at any level. I appreciate the feedback as it definitely helps to know that others that take the game seriously have similar feelings towards losing. I realize that this sort of response is part of what makes me a winning player. Perhaps there is no best of both worlds with respect to being a winner and not having losses sting more than wins elate. My hope is that with even more experience that a loss will just be a loss -- of course something to reflect upon and learn from, but something that can more easily be let go. Poker is such an interesting game and, to me, dealing with the psychology of losing seems to be my next challenge in my crawl toward the possibility of taking my game to another level.

Feeling Certain

I've always had a lingering doubt in my mind as to whether or not I could be a consistent winning player. Over the last few days that doubt has gone away. I have found the games that work for me -- live cash games, online sngs, the occasional online MTT -- and focused on them for the past few months. My stats don't lie, I am a winning player. Now, it is just a matter of gradually moving up in limits. I haven't had a losing month this year and by focusing on the games that I like playing, by playing both live and online for variety and by playing only when I'm in the mood and cutting sessions short when I feel my wins going into lock-down mode, I have churned out a steady profit.

Just back from the Wed night hi/lo game -- up $335 in 4-5 hours.

So, for the month so far, 9-10 hours of live play +$535, a couple of days of online sngs +$750. Another good start to the month. Having played some $100 and $200 sngs last month, I realize that more profit is possible, but I need to slowly become more comfortable with risking more money online. For now, I feel a reasonable goal for the month is $2.5-$3k, we'll see how it goes.

Everything Seems to be in Place and Running Smoothly

I didn't play all that much in May, won around $2.5k so it was a good month profit-wise. I seem to be beating every game that I play these days. I can pretty much guarantee booking a $2k-$3k win every month these days combining live and online play.

So far this month:

I'm up $750 or so online having played 18 sngs -- I was getting tired of the Party 6 max sngs, needed some variety so I tried out the Stars 9max Turbos...just started playing low limit $27 ones to see how they are and after 10 games my ROI is a whopping 116%, likely not sustainable but certainly a profitable game none the less. Played one $110 6 max turbo on there and placed first as well. Played a $6 turbo 99max on Party for a fun diversion and finished first. I'll move up to the $55 turbos on Stars after a larger sample size at $27. The beauty of these turbos is the ease of multitabling, the play is pretty straightforward in these -- so far I've just been 2-tabling as I've been playing exclusively on my laptop and can't play 3 tables well due to overlap.

I'm up $200 having played only one live session of the Wed night hi/lo, the most beatable game on earth -- there is no way that I can't beat (and I have been beating) this game for a conservative average of $200/session, so that would be $800 a month or so. I've had 2 losing sessions there in 3 months. I wish this were a higher limit game, but it's my favourtie live game, so I doubt I'll stop playing it anytime soon.

So, $2k-$3k a month seems a reasonable average playing at my current limits, depending on my playing time. This, of course, barring a losing session or two whilst taking a shot at higher limits.

My goal is to maintain this for a couple of months and to eventually get this figure up to $4k-$5k a month .