| So, I'm up $700 or so in a couple days of my usual limit sngs -- I decide to take a shot at some bigger games and suffer bad beat after bad beat.
Now, I'm back to even for my online play for the month.
I find this the toughest part of my game. When I win, I'm not especially happy as I excpect to be/know that I'm a long-term winning player. I had this same outlook when I was an athlete -- wins, even championships, weren't that high for me, but losses were always quite low. I know this is due to high expecatations, but I feel that it's tougher to deal with in poker due to that higher luck factor.
Any large losing session leaves me feeling like crap, even if it leaves me even for the short-term. The money only seems to mean much to me when I lose, not when I win.
Even live, I can have 6 winning sessions and be up 2-3k over that time, but one brutal session of losing $500-$600 upsets me for a day or so, and I usually skip a day or 2 af the clubs when this happens. It is rare that I have a losing month, but these sessions still aren't easy for me to let go.
This also impedes me at times from moving up limits.
Anyone else have this problem with their game?
For me, this is the toughest part of poker. The fact that there is know way that you can win every time no matter your skill. I know in my head that it's all part of the game, I know that luck is what keeps driving the bad players back to the game and keeps the games juicy, but it is something that I still struggle with emotionally.
I have a fairly balanced life outside of poker, which helps...but losing sessions do creep slightly into my attitude afterwards.
Does anyone else have this issue with their game. Or did you have this issue and overcome it? I would think that most winning players are pretty competitive players with high expectations from their games and that this is a large hurdle for some to overcome,
I'd appreciate any comments.
Thanks. |
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i think you're better off than you could be, seeing that after a losing session, you take a day or two off, as opposed to immediately jumping back in to break even..
Nothing anybody can tell you that you don't already know and have said, you just have to remember it at the moment. Think of it as the cost of investing, you know the return will come, you just have to put a little capital in. | | | | |
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I posted a similar thread a few months ago (you may remember it got Harthgosh banned). It seems that you suffered the same feelings that I did, you just hate to lose. It wasn't about the money but the actual loss. Whether or not you played bad or had a bad beat it just sucks to lose. Now what have I done to overcome that feeling?
I have just seperated the losing from the game that I enjoy. I look back on the actual time that I had. For the most part, even when I lose, I had a fun time playing.
If you continue to get depressed or dwell on losses you are going to begin to hate the game. And it will affect how you play during the game. You may become so fearful of feeling like shit that you'll make poor choices that will magnify the the feeling which you are trying to avoid.
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I posted a similar thread a few months ago (you may remember it got Harthgosh banned). It seems that you suffered the same feelings that I did, you just hate to lose. It wasn't about the money but the actual loss. Whether or not you played bad or had a bad beat it just sucks to lose. Now what have I done to overcome that feeling?
I have just seperated the losing from the game that I enjoy. I look back on the actual time that I had. For the most part, even when I lose, I had a fun time playing.
If you continue to get depressed or dwell on losses you are going to begin to hate the game. And it will affect how you play during the game. You may become so fearful of feeling like shit that you'll make poor choices that will magnify the the feeling which you are trying to avoid.
Well, it's not as extreme as you make it sound. Certainly not to the extreme of any form of depression. I would liken it to losing a big game when I played junior hockey and thinking about it to some extent for the next 24h or so. It's just the frustration of losing at a game that I can beat. Rationally, I know that every session cannot be a winning one, but I still get affected to some degree emotionally by losing. I'm certainly working on getting this out of my game. My goal is to be playing semi-professionaly in the next couple of years, but I can see this as a serious hurdle to achieving that goal. One that, if I can't overcome will seriously hold me back from this goal.I have a completely seperate poker bankroll from my real life money, but I am still not completely immune to the thought of losing actual money when a bad run hits. I have never come remotely close to decimating my poker bankroll and I see my bankroll steadily growing, but still focus more on the losses than any wins.I think that there exists some dicotomy in easily accepting losses and variance and being a competitive, winning player. To me, this would seem to be one of the hardest parts of playing professionaly. Possibly, playing more frequently and thus being more accustom to the swings would be the answer to the problem...only time will tell I suppose. |
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The swings when going professionally will be far more drastic and longer. You're right, this is a huge hurdle that you must overcome. Clearly you're not ready to go semi-pro (as you have acknowledged), perhaps consulting an actual pro to understand their mentality would be the best course of action. I'm sure you wouldn't want this to affect you.
I am not sure if playing more frquently would be the answer. Playing more frequently may enhance the problem rather than allow you to deal with it better. I am not a physcologist but I would think being able to handle the smaller losses would be prudent before making the choice that would affect you financially. That is of course if your "semi-pro" idea is going to be a primary source of income. Losing and realising that making the next mortgage payment or what-have-you will be hard won't make it easier.
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| | I think you hit the nail on the head by saying winning players are competitive. We hate to lose. Whether its $5 or $5000, its still a loss. And it sucks. Even if I finish 2nd in a tourney and take home a wad of cash, I still think of losing to that one other person.
My advice... just be happy you can still afford to play. |
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just wanted to add a comment to this thread. This is exactly how my addiction started! You would win so much some nights then lose it all back the next. You then have the idea in your head, "ah, was just a bad night, let me rebuild again" ..then after awhile you start sounding like the GM for the toronto maple leafs...."Rebuilding Phase" (I mean no offence when I say that about the leafs, I still bleed blue to this day" ...and sooner then later your in the red trying to catch up your inital losses.
Word of advice here is slow down, if your doing well at the smaller stakes....why fix something that isn't broke? ...Just remain at that level and sooner or later you will be a bigger winner, then a bigger loser. (like me)
-ALI | | | | |
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just wanted to add a comment to this thread. This is exactly how my addiction started! You would win so much some nights then lose it all back the next. You then have the idea in your head, "ah, was just a bad night, let me rebuild again" ..then after awhile you start sounding like the GM for the toronto maple leafs...."Rebuilding Phase" (I mean no offence when I say that about the leafs, I still bleed blue to this day" ...and sooner then later your in the red trying to catch up your inital losses.
Word of advice here is slow down, if your doing well at the smaller stakes....why fix something that isn't broke? ...Just remain at that level and sooner or later you will be a bigger winner, then a bigger loser. (like me)
-ALI
Thanks for the guidance. However, my issue is not with being a losing player, just with handing the inevitable losses better within the big picture. I felt a bit crappy yesterday about a large-ish loss, had a winning session live tonight and all is forgotten. If I could just get rid of the 12-24h of bother after a losing session things would be perfect...guess I just have to learn to take losing in stride more readily. | | | | |
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If I could just get rid of the 12-24h of bother after a losing session things would be perfect...guess I just have to learn to take losing in stride more readily.
No suggestion, but a quick question/comment. If you did eliminate the "12-24h of bother after a losing session" would you still be as good a player? Isn't the pressure of avoiding that feeling as well as the (sometimes painful) time reflecting on our losses and focusing on our mistakes something that makes better player's? When an athlete has a scoring drought, they don't shrug it off as a return from "excellent" to "above average", they get frustrated with themselves, study more video, and spend more time in practice till they get there game back. Personally, I think it would be more "fun" if I didn't feel bad losing, but I think my overall game would suffer. Losing makes me a better player, and forces me to continually improve. | | | | |
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If I could just get rid of the 12-24h of bother after a losing session things would be perfect...guess I just have to learn to take losing in stride more readily.
No suggestion, but a quick question/comment. If you did eliminate the "12-24h of bother after a losing session" would you still be as good a player? Isn't the pressure of avoiding that feeling as well as the (sometimes painful) time reflecting on our losses and focusing on our mistakes something that makes better player's? When an athlete has a scoring drought, they don't shrug it off as a return from "excellent" to "above average", they get frustrated with themselves, study more video, and spend more time in practice till they get there game back.Personally, I think it would be more "fun" if I didn't feel bad losing, but I think my overall game would suffer. Losing makes me a better player, and forces me to continually improve.Great reply Trevor, couldn't have said it better myself (I was gonna try, but now that would just be embarrassing). /g2 | | | | |
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If I could just get rid of the 12-24h of bother after a losing session things would be perfect...guess I just have to learn to take losing in stride more readily.
I'm not entirely sure you can, I think this attribute is ingrained in some people. I'm very much the same in all aspects of my life. I hate to lose, I accept that I will but I still hate it...and I'll 'hang on' to it for a while afterwards. Wether it's a hockey game, ball game, poker game, or whatever I also usually have a period of a day or two after a lose where I'm kinda grumpy about it. I also really don't see it as a problem. I handle it much the same as you...which I think is fine. I think it would be more of an issue if you played while still bummed about a recent lose as this could lead you to stray from your game. I personally would try not to worry about it, take your day or so to get over it then get back at it. I'm sure there are many pros that react to a lose in a similar matter and I think it's completely natural. | | | | |
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I'd be a liar if I said I didn't get affected by losing.
Poker gets by heart thumping, and that's one of the reasons I love it....but the adrenaline goes both ways...I get pumped by winning, and I get bummed by losing. And it's never about the money for me - I have a seperate bankroll, track all my wins/losses, and never play above my loss threshold....it's about the challenge, and being better than my opponent.
Some losses are easier to shake off than others...luckily I have a poker playing husband, and when I lose he gives me perspective (and I do the same for him). The thing I try to do is learn something from every loss....that way it's an investment in improving my game. | | | | |
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The money only seems to mean much to me when I lose, not when I win. I sort of know what you mean. In general I find I play LESS when I'm winning. I find I probably play more often, but I tend to play more managed, shorter sessions. I don't know why. Maybe I have the compulsive urge of playing on when I'm running bad but at what I know is a good table. When I'm winning, I just tend to find the game gets boring and leave with my winnings (I think I'm "probably" better at recognizing when table conditions have detiorated when I'm running well too). If you find a way of getting rid of the pain of losing, let me know. I'm mired in probably my biggest short-term downswing that I can remember. Probably somewhere around 200-250BB at various limits on various sites. It's been annoying to say the least. And while I'm not happy with my results of late, my overall attitude (shockingly) is that of mild indifference. I don't know if my blatant disregard of money is a good or bad thing. Now of course this is very short term (say last 2 weeks), so if I'm in the same boat 2-3 weeks from now, the grind of a longterm downswing may be enough to start weighing on me. I guess I keep telling myself that variance will eventually turn the other way, and going through the fire of a tough losing streak can only make me stronger in the long-run (unless I go broke). Fortunately, playing massively overrolled makes a bad downturn like this bearable at least. | | | | |
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Thanks for the great responses. I guess that in some sense I was venting, but this thread has really helped me. It is very rare that I have more than 1-2 consecutive losing sessions as I'm primarily a cash-game player. As I stated previously, I do have the ambition of being able to play poker part-time-professionally at some point in my life -- whether that will ever come to fruition remains to be seen. I have no illusions about the downsides of being an any-level pro player. Obviously doing something part-time for a living in which you cannot always succeed can be frustrating at times. I feel that minimizing the sting of losses is one of the most important aspects of my game that I need to work on before ever even considering any transition to being a part-time pro at any level. I appreciate the feedback as it definitely helps to know that others that take the game seriously have similar feelings towards losing. I realize that this sort of response is part of what makes me a winning player. Perhaps there is no best of both worlds with respect to being a winner and not having losses sting more than wins elate. My hope is that with even more experience that a loss will just be a loss -- of course something to reflect upon and learn from, but something that can more easily be let go. Poker is such an interesting game and, to me, dealing with the psychology of losing seems to be my next challenge in my crawl toward the possibility of taking my game to another level. | | | | |
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